44 Comments

1. 

   @peterferan4389

   February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

   Have you looked at the Australian STV system and the NZ mmp system .

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2. 

   @carrstone01

   February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

   You nailed it when you said [at ~03:17] that the people in power should represent the electorate, i.e., it doesn't matter who they are bc they all have the same manifesto to lean on.
   In a two-party system like the US, the next president is chosen for the cut of his suit and the charm he exudes. Even more worrisome is that primary elections are a revolving cascade of disparate policy initiatives and individual 'promises' even though all the candidates ostensibly represent the same "Party".

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3. 

   @Treinbouwer

   February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

   4:54 coalisonforming is a good thing, but I am happy thay out next coalision is likely to be formed of 4 parties that have some similarities instead of 5 rather different paries and still lacking a majority in the fisth chamber, like last time.

   2 parties is not enough, but 26 is too much.😂

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4. 

   @thefishdyenisus1326

   February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

   please explain cooalition

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5. 

   @coinbowl

   February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

   I wish the United States has 600 seats elected by party list proportional representation. I always vote for the best party. If you are a socialist and I am a socialist, then I will vote for you.

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6. 

   @northyorkshirechris5735

   February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

   It’s worth pointing out that there are other forms of PR. Whereas the Dutch may use the Party List system, the Additional Member System is in use in Scotland and Wales (and Germany & NZ too) and doesn’t appear to produce the undesirable effects you mention in this video. As for letting in extremists, I would note that in Germany there is a 5% threshold that must be passed for any of the parties – the German system was successfully introduced by the UK and US (ironically both FPTP countries) after WW2.

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7. 

   @usvalve

   February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

   In the UK with first-past-the-post, we still don't get to choose our prime minister or our government (cabinet, ministers). Our MP doesn't represent his/her constituency, but is told how to vote by the whip, on pain of demotion/deselection. How is this a representative democracy?

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8. 

   @hyan5cardoso

   February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

   Voting on paper?

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9. 

   @Awrtable

   February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

   Rutte leading four coalitions over thirteen years a success and model for other fake democracies around the world.

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10. 

    @ebenezermarboh5849

    February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

    Any electoral system works better that fptp.

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11. 

    @oetgaol

    February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

    The Dutch system is not perfect. I think it could do with a floor of three to five seats to keep out the tiny parties so coalitions can be formed more easily.
    Also parlement is too small to function effectively and should be enlarged to maybe even double it's current size.
    However the great thing about PR is that everyones voice is heard. A small party like the Partij voor de Dieren was able to work with parlement to get bills passed even though they had only a couple of seats.
    PR allows extreme views to enter parlement easily but it is almost impossible to get them into power like has happened in the UK with Brexit or the US with Trump.
    While it is described as a bad thing in this video the moderation of coalitions is amazing. Sure you might not get the best outcome of your own party but you are also protected from a lot of wacky ideas some politicians have (wheter in your own party or in another one).
    It is a shame you quote Thierry Baudet as he is basically the Dutch version of Jacob Reese Mogg. The whole piece feels a little unbalanced and not really like you understand what happens in Dutch politics and its pros and cons.

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12. 

    @ajuk1

    February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

    I'm a big advocate of PR, bit I don't like the Dutch system, this is why I want STV.

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13. 

    @ilikecats10

    February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

    great from an entertainment point . all little neighbourhood bars bursting with opinions

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14. 

    @theuglykwan

    February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

    Party list doesn't need to be nationwide. The former european parliamentary elections in the UK used regional party list.

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15. 

    @theyoungcentrist9110

    February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

    PR still forced parties to broaden their base with many voters to achieve a mandate to govern. Smaller parties who only get 4-5% of the vote won’t be able to govern because of how narrow their base is. PR is geared towards centrism more than majoritarian & plurality systems. It allows the minority to have a voice, foster coalition building and it rewards parties that make the round going to all the races to bring a unified message.

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16. 

    @arkdotgif

    February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

    6:33 how could this be seen as a positive by anybody who likes democracy? they were voted for democratically

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17. 

    @coasterblocks3420

    February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

    Australia uses PR in the Senate and preferential voting in the House of Reps. Each state and territory is its own division for the senate with equal representation (12 per state, 2 per territory) and each state is divided into electorates of average 110,000 voters per electorate, totalling 151 seats.

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18. 

    @bicyclemanNL

    February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

    So funny that a figure of 60 million votes are used which no european country has, and there are only about 18 million people of all ages in NL

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19. 

    @nuggims

    February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

    Polarization is what Capitalists in the United States count on. In a two party system, there is pretty much no choice.

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20. 

    @yellowtulip4105

    February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

    This sounds very fair. I doubt they would prefer our system.

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21. 

    @marcusfranconium3392

    February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

    Forum for democratie ,is basicly a nazi party , that has been controversial for years , there youth department even posting nazi propoganda and hitler salutes.

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22. 

    @michaelfountain3898

    February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

    Please do a video in the Scottish system which appears to me to have the best of both worlds.

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23. 

    @MazzaEliLi7406

    February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

    Thank you. The following explanation may be of interest to people wishing to understand how another country interprets the term Proportional Representation:-
    COPY POST:' How the Dutch Electoral System Works (and the Pros & Cons) – TLDR News'. There are other systems of proportional representation – this is just one.

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24. 

    @whydontiagreewithyou4985

    February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

    The Cons can generally be resolved by 1. Extremist parties will be more isolated as the other parties never collaborate with them, if they do end up being part of a coalition, they have to take a more moderate stance for their more key demands to be enacted, 2. The number of parties can be reduced by establishing an electoral threshold to be represented, such as 5% of the popular vote minimum which would reduce the number of parties holding seats from 17 to 8, making it far easier to negotiate coalitions, and an open-party list popularly ranked by party members anytime by s and the rest can be decided by party national committees, all of this would at least somewhat reduce the complexity of the system, 3. Coalition governments have policies enacted gradually and not always suddenly as in majoritarian systems and laws would better reflect the popular will. In the US, the vast majority desire universal healthcare, but not enough so that most people in one of the major parties don't, leading to reduced change. If most people in the Netherlands theoretically want exotic pets to be banned but disagree on other issues, there would be a coalition that tries to form based on common ground and banning exotic pets would be one of them, so the next coalition is likely to carry out the popular will.

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25. 

    @ninirema4532

    February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

    super smart election system🗻🌏

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26. 

    @blackfalcon1324

    February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

    "In majority systems parties have to appeal to their base"
    Lol, in the US all the two parties do is spit in the face of their base while still serving the same cooperate overlords. I mean, if you are a Republican who is tired of getting treated like a whipping boy, what you going to do? Vote Biden?

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27. 

    @ian-0976

    February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

    its not perfect. but its better than usa. usa is basically choosing between an orange and a demented old man.

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28. 

    @johnmichaelcule8423

    February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

    I would be more impressed with the 'UKIP never got any seats' argument if they hadn't got what they wanted anyway.

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29. 

    @rosenberry9150

    February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

    Personal Opinion on If Proportional Representation is Good
    I say that its not good because I want to chose the candidate I want, It also prevents Independents from running with a broad ideology that everyone agrees atleast ¾ the time

    Personal Opinion on Scenarios
    Scenario 1
    Party-List Proportional Representation put into countries that had been first-past-the-post for dozens of years is good, because it means that parties will have to list moderate candidates or else they would be accused to be extremist groups and be voted out of government.

    Scenario 2
    If it was put into a country in political crisis because of the diverse state of parliament and an already polarised government would lead to more chaos, like for example Canada, my country, while a majoritarian country, Canada doesn't have a single party ruling without the support and confidence of other parties, with a rising Far-Right (Canadian People's Party) and the polarising politics with the more and ever Nationalist Left-Leaning Liberal Party and the more ever rising centre-right Conservative Party, and without any choices to make coalition with more extreme fringe parties to gain a majority, Canada isn't in a good place to switch to proportional representation.

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30. 

    @AnimilesYT

    February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

    9:09As someone who is Dutch I strongly disagree with this. yes, they have to compromise. But this means that no extremist policies get accepted. There's a large variety of people who all have their own ideas, and only the ideas that get support from the majority of the representatives will get accepted. No one fully agrees with every single standpoint of a party, so choosing a party to vote for is also a compromise. If we have to choose between a very select amount of parties then we will have to accept their unpopular policies as well. These unpopular policies won't be pushed through in a system like this.
    I think a system like this is great to keep polarization in check. It also shows us the rise of extremist groups (like FVD) so the issues of the people who vote for them get heard without really giving them any power to radically change policies.

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31. 

    @AnimilesYT

    February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

    If you are very casually involved in politics then you can't make an educated decision. So I think it's a benefit that those people may not vote.

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32. 

    @ansonkhyip

    February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

    yes, please tell me how european countries deal with never ending coalition! (collaboration and compromise are good things)

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33. 

    @ninirema4532

    February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

    happy

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34. 

    @maikotter9945

    February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

    Beitrag des Dienstages, 15. März 2022

    Gedanken

    EU Kommission: 1

    EU Parlament: 29
    4 Wahlkreise in Europa [= jeweils stärkste Partei mit Wähleranteil und Aufrundung]
    1 Wahlkreis in der Karibik
    
    1 Auslandswahlkreis
    Verteilung der Restsitze

    König: 1

    Reichsregierung: 17

    Zentralparlament: 261 (3. Wurzel der Einwohnerzahl)
    19 Wahlkreise in Europa [= jeweils stärkste Partei mit Wähleranteil und Aufrundung]
    6 Wahlkreise in der Karibik [= jeweils stärkste Partei mit Wähleranteil und Aufrundung]
    1 Auslandswahlkreis [= jeweils stärkste Partei mit Wähleranteil und Aufrundung]
    Verteilung der Restsitze

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35. 

    @ludwickfamilycentre8702

    February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

    Would support switching to PR for UK. Dutch system seems much more rational and representative. First past post is disempowering for those whose party can never 'get in'.

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36. 

    @peterbreis5407

    February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

    Just look how to do it properly using an independent Electoral Commission covering ALL elections big and small down to community groups, banning Gerrymanders, with compulsory preferential voting, rotating ballot papers and multi-seat electorates like in Australia, the home of secret, universal suffrage.

    How many ways can you get things wrong with "all the problems" when there is a ready working example staring you in the face.

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37. 

    @nicolajrath1570

    February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

    I'm from Denmark, where we use proportional representation and our system is a bit different. Opposite the Dutch, we (like most countries with proportional systems) have an electoral threshold. If a party doesn't get that amount of votes, they don't get it, ours is 2%. So if a party technically gets enough for a seat but doesn't reach 2%, they don't get in. We also divide the country into electoral regions and subdivide them into areas where candidates can run individually. It's an open list system, so the party names are there and then under it is a handful of candidates you can vote for as a personal vote, these are given to the parties as well but if the candidate get enough they have secured a seat. During the last parliamentary elections there was fewer than 10 pr party where I lived, making it easy to find the parties and a specific candidate you'd like to vote for. It is technically possible to get into parliament without the threshold being met if you win enough votes in your local electoral area, but usually it's only the parties that reach the 2% threshold that have people in parliament. That and the seats for the Faroe Island and Greenland, both of which have two seats

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38. 

    @flyingdutchman2065

    February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

    I’d like to see how this system would work in conjunction with the American electoral college.

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39. 

    @aaronjones8905

    February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

    I don't think there's really as much difference in the extremism question as people suppose. In a nation as large as the US, representatives that are on paper in the same party are often quite different given the need to represent their constituency. This loyalty to the constituents is also a good way to decrease the power of the parties themselves. A representative who is well liked by his constituents can vote as he pleases. Also, the US congressmen are part of caucuses which help define their policy positions as well.

    I think the biggest benefits to FPP is the clarity that a voter can feel about how a person gets into power and what effect their vote had on that outcome. Third parties don't do well in the US because whenever they hold a policy position that is popular with the electorate – one of the major parties will quickly adopt that position. Third parties also often fail to work at a grassroots level. Instead, they put all of their attention into the largest races. Winning a seat at the state level is really not that difficult.

    My biggest complaint against proportional representation is that I don't trust the horse trading that goes on between political parties. It differs from one country to another, but when a parliament is especially divided – parties will be awarded cabinet and policy positions to win their agreement which will primarily serve their small voter base. See Iraq, Lebanon, and Israel for details.

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40. 

    @Alpha1Epsilon2

    February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

    Ideally I'd want a mix

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41. 

    @marinemanaphy101

    February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

    The idea that UKIP didn’t ultimately win is still very funny. Like, they got what they wanted – without ever having to form any sort of government. The party never got a lot of MPs in Parliament under their own banner, but it’s undeniable that they had immense influence over British politics – whether that was in terms of convincing Cameron to call for a referendum, or Tory MPs like Johnson supporting the Leave campaign in it. Now, the UK effectively has a UKIP Premier under the Tory banner.

    The idea that small, extremist parties are kept out of power under FPTP just isn’t true. They don’t get into Parliament much, but arguably they’re even more insidious – the major parties steer to run them over, and that can mean veering wildly to the extremes. Under proportional systems, the extreme parties might make it into Parliament, but it also means that major parties face way, way less pressure to adopt extremist policies than they otherwise might.

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42. 

    @yilmaz4012

    February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

    There are only 2 true disadvantages from what I hear. It can be too representative. One seat in Parliament gives you allready power. But this honestly also is an advantage. Even the smallest groups get respresentation. The second would be the coalition that is formed for 9 months now. But this also is an advantage because it tends to make the coalition more moderate instead of in the USA, Canada or UK where a party can all it wants with just a slight majority.

    In the Netherlands Parliament & Government both are strong organizations that in theory should clash so the most representative policy can be applied. And I think that is a beautiful democratic system.

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43. 

    @twertygo

    February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

    I normally quite enjoy your videos, hoever I have a big issue with the latter half of the video being just a big dump of contra PR arguments with no counter argument offered. This video makes it seem like the PR system is a moronic system doomed to failure ftom the beginning.

    On jultiple occasions you talked about how the politics need to compromise and that this is a bad thing, without mentioning that tha exact same is happening in other systems, just that the compromise is reached within the often fragmented parties just before election, instead of after.

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44. 

    @ClayShentrup

    February 25, 2024 at 11:32 am

    I came here to see how the Dutch election system works and you didn't explain it. I just want a 2 minute explanation of how it actually works.

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